"I'll bet on the favourite and he'll bet on the longest odds possible."
If England fans are wondering what kind of Test head coach Stephen Fleming will be, his description of the difference between himself and Brendon McCullum said it all. Exit the punter, enter the pragmatist.
"For a start, he doesn't know anything about horse racing," laughed McCullum when Fleming's brief summation of their dynamic, much of which was forged from 134 international appearances together - 126 with Fleming as McCullum's captain - was presented to him. "He's trying to steal the horse racing parlance when he's not really accustomed to it." That friendly jostling between two close friends, sandwiching Saturday's third T20I between England and Sri Lanka at Emirates Old Trafford, might have been the most competitive action of the day.
Following England's dominant eight-wicket victory with 10.2 overs to spare, it was left to Sri Lanka coach Gary Kirsten to front up. In the same room, sat on the same chair Fleming had used for his first media engagement as Test coach, Kirsten was left fending off angst with platitudes about his team's gross under-performance. An age has passed since the South African was not once but twice in the running for the England head coach job.
Time and timing are everything in this game, and Fleming is a beneficiary of both. The end of a long residency at Chennai Super Kings coincided with the England Test vacancy, and it helped his interview process and deliberations that a close confidant was the previous occupant. England had stuttered in McCullum's last 12 months but were starting to turn a corner - on the field against Pakistan, and off the field after maxing out their shame. Fleming acknowledged this was an opportune moment to take the reins. Even with World Test Champions South Africa as his first assignment, there is only upside.
McCullum was grateful for that luxury in 2022. And part of his handover to Fleming has involved relaying what he feels went awry in his final stanza and, crucially, why he felt the ECB deemed him incapable of rectifying those issues.
It speaks to those conversations that not only did Fleming credit McCullum's initial work but was frank about what must improve. He even had one in the chamber for the inevitable moniker, as if briefed by his old mate who hated his.
"That's a medical condition," he quipped when 'Flemball' got its first (and last) outing in his opening presser.
"I really loved the positive play and the freeing up of the England players which was deemed to be a bit of a hurdle. So if I could take that and combine a bit of cricket sense in some key moments, the game is too tough [not to do that].
"The other thing around it is when you do something that changes the landscape, others catch up and there's no doubt the other teams all of a sudden put a lot of attention on how to stop England and to combat what they were doing.
"So there's a bit of an evolution piece… but the game itself will always overrule and there are key times in a match when you've got to be really smart. Maybe we can just work a bit harder on that and combine with the positive nature of the players in there. And that is Test cricket in general, I think.
"The white-ball generation comes through, so it's harnessing that, but just trying to add some cricket sense and smarts around the tough times so the positive ones will win you matches not just entertain."
Fleming knows he is coming in to calm things down. The one who opens the curtains at the dregs of an all-night rave. A Winston Wolf figure arriving in a Skoda, armed with Xanax and a blueprint. "If supporters could look at us and say 'yeah, they are disciplined, well-planned and competitive', that's a good start." A far cry from managing director Rob Key encouraging those same supporters to "buckle up and get ready for the ride" when McCullum was unveiled.
Even Fleming's eventual donning of England training gear, while months overdue, was deliberately tentative, seemingly wearing the dark teal jacket not as uniform but to keep out the Manchester chill. His time on the outfield ahead of the third T20I was mostly on the periphery, until McCullum coaxed him into the team huddle.
Though Fleming was always going to prioritise family and pre-arranged business commitments during the last months of this summer, he felt taking charge for the Pakistan series so soon "would have only added to the chaos". A clear nod to Joe Root's summation of the English Test summer.
And yet, the most intriguing part of Fleming's understated induction is that it comes with an appetite to shake things up. From afar, he has observed and made enquiries, and not just with McCullum, Root, managing director Rob Key and Marcus Trescothick, who acted as his surrogate for the Pakistan series. Mick Newell, director of cricket at Nottinghamshire and Fleming's coach during a successful period at Trent Bridge that rekindled his love of captaincy, has been regularly consulted. Newell will have no doubt given him a comprehensive rundown of the modern domestic scene before he hit the road last week to see some of it for himself.
It was notable that Fleming, having only visited four county grounds - Chester-le-Street, Headingley, Grace Road and Wantage Road - bigged up the wider talent pool. A measure of success, he wagers, is pressure on places from beyond the sanctity of the dressing room. A clear shot across the bows of any England Test cricketer feeling too comfortable.
"If you're leaving very good players out then you're going to be in a healthy situation, if you've got your strategy right. Then it becomes a very good man management exercise, which can be difficult.
"But I'm a little bit bullish, and even around the county scene there are some good names. There's some really good young players who might not quite be there yet, but that's where the 19s and the Lions are going to be really important."
One of the criticisms of McCullum is that he was too trusting of a select group of players. Though he was a firm hand behind the scenes, it is hard to argue that some of those trusted few abused the freedom they were afforded, certainly when it came to professionalism.
Brydon Carse was the latest to take such liberties, with an assault case against the seamer dropped by Derbyshire Police on Friday following an ill-judged night out in August. When pressed by BBC Sport on Carse, who remains available for selection despite being omitted from the limited-overs squad, Fleming gave his sternest answer of an otherwise genial round of press engagements.
"There are standards," he said. "We pick on runs and wickets primarily, but I think it's foolish not to also say there are standards that need to be set."
Fleming is due to return to New Zealand next week, and he will not have cleared his in-tray by then. A coaching team still needs to be assembled. More county foreheads kissed. Central contracts are to be sorted when some of the current deals expire on September 30. Squads need to be workshopped for the winter around white-ball series and with a keen eye on next summer's Ashes.
As the 2026 summer comes to an end, English Test cricket is braced with anticipation for the start of Fleming's new era. A calmer, more sensible period looms, with nothing taken for granted and everything up for grabs.